Thema ansehen
 Zither stimmern am PC
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| azapf |
Geschrieben am 09.04.2010
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 Mitglied Beiträge: 6 Registriert am: 11.01.2010 |
tocadelius schrieb: Ich spiele ein 31-saitiges Instrument, Das ist ja ein Kuriosum mit einer ungeraden Saitenzahl. Wer hat sowas denn wann gebaut? tocadelius schrieb: habe als IT-Berufler ein kleines Programm für Münchner Stimmung entwickelt, das ich bisjetzt nur für mein eigenes Nutzen einsetze... Hättest du nicht müssen. Zumindest für Linux gibt's eine ganze Menge freie Tuner. tocadelius schrieb: Die Stimmungsart ist derzeit 'gleichtemperiert', ich habe demnächst auch eine pythagoräische Variante vor (scheint mir fürs Konzert Zither besonders gut geeignet!). Mit der pythagoräischen wird's ganz schnell hässlich, sobald du über die "Wolfsquinte" musst. Bei moderner Musik ist das ganz schnell unausweichlich. As-Dur oder f-moll, nicht auszudenken in pythagoräisch! Außerdem handelst Du Dir ƒrger im Zusammenspiel mit dem Griffbrett ein, da das seit Gioseffo Zarlino 1588 (und damit lange vor den Tasteninstrumenten) gleichschwebend bundiert ist. Du bekämst also immer Schwebungen zwischen Griff- und Freisaiten. Gruß, Amelie |
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| azapf |
Geschrieben am 12.04.2010
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Mitglied Beiträge: 6 Registriert am: 11.01.2010 |
Dear Rupert, Rupert wrote: Since zither strings are arranged in fifths, the Pythagorean is very natural and practical. [...] Unless you really need to play in exotic keys, this is unlikely to be a problem Granted. Easy to tune, fine. But the problem starts out much earlier, you don't need to arrive at keys using the wolf interval. If you use a'=440 Hz as a reference point and tune fifths/fourths from there, your fretboard is out of tune with the free strings by as much as 1.1 Hz for c' (261.6 Hz ET vs. 260.7 Hz pyth.). That means, you'll hear 2.2 beats per second (1 full cycle = 2 beats). So your tuning is already considerably off when playing in the key of C. Rupert wrote: But I think her point is a bit academic, mainly because I am aware that guitarists in particular are generally happy to tune their strings in quite a robust way, just via pure fifths, i.e Pythagorean style. It seems to be the the case that very few people indeed can actually hear the supposed dissonances which arise as a result I also play guitar and the pure-fifths (rather: fourths) tuning method advocated here leads to considerable problems as the two outer E strings would end up out-of-octave then. I also must point out that I've never seen a professional guitar player using this tuning method (sometimes electric players use tuning by harmonics, which would be the same thing, but even they are usually wise enough to stretch their 4ths a little). For the guitar, I use a method that only uses a single fifth, which I compress: 1. Tune A=110 Hz to pitch. 2. Tune g string at 2nd fret = a 220 Hz to the octave. As the fretboard is ET, it will be in tune. 3. Tune d string at 2nd fret = e to the fifth. Make a tad flat to achieve temperament. 4. Tune open e' and E string to the octave to d at 2nd fret. 5. Tune the remaining b string to the octave to A at 2nd fret = B. In this way, you have eliminated ALL BUT ONE fifths and your only assumption is that the 2nd fret provides an ET whole tone. Plus, even if you used a pythagorean tuning on the guitar, the problem would be less severe than on the zither, as the guitar strings only cover 5/12 of the cycle of fifths, namely GDAEB. Regards, Amelie |
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| azapf |
Geschrieben am 15.04.2010
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Mitglied Beiträge: 6 Registriert am: 11.01.2010 |
Hi Rupert, Rupert wrote: Using the charts at http://tonefrequency.info I followed up your point a little to see if 'the problem' ever gets worse than at middle C: Between the F at ET 349Hz (the highest free string) and the F# at 93 Hz (lowest, not including contrabass) I find that the maximum difference is only 1.57 Hz, while the rms is only 0.84 Hz The only problem is: the human sense of pitch is logarithmic. So absolute differences mean absolutely zilch. You have to compare frequency ratios. Let's do just that: The maximum distances you travel from A using Pythagorean tuning are to Eb and G#. High Eb on the zither free strings would be 154.5 Hz (155.6 Hz ET), high G# 104.4 Hz (103.8 Hz ET). The ratios, according to the tables you mentioned would be 154.5/155.6=0.993 for Eb and 104.4/103.8=1.006 for G#. That still doesn't mean very much. Let's relate that to the ET semitone of 2^(1/12)=1.0595. Yields for Eb: log(0.99293)/log(semitone)=-0.12, for G#: 0.10. In other words, Eb will be over 1/10 of a semitone flat, compared to the fretboard and G# 1/10 of a semitone sharp. That's quite an audible difference. Who wants that? Not me. Regards, Amy |
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| chefnb |
Geschrieben am 11.04.2012
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Mitglied Beiträge: 1 Registriert am: 10.04.2012 |
Hallo Ich könnte so ein Programm wie hier in diesm Thread beschrieben zum Zither stimmen wahrscheinlich gut gebrauchen. Tocadelius (?), kann man dein Programm irgendwo downloaden oder als email zugeschickt bekommen? Bin sehr interessiert. Danke! Frank |
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| Tocadelius |
Geschrieben am 30.05.2012
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Mitglied Beiträge: 1 Registriert am: 29.03.2010 |
Hallo Frank Danke für Dein Interesse ! https://sourceforge.net/projects/zither-tuner/ |
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